34 Replies Latest reply: May 15, 2014 10:16 AM by Guy Chowning RSS

    Monarch Version 12

    Guy Chowning

      When will version 12 for Monarch Pro be released?

       

      Thanks

      Guy Chowning

        • Monarch Version 12
          AlexM _

          Hi Guy,

           

          According to Mike in a recent posting, it's due out on October 31st. With so few days to go, I'm surprised that there's been no news on this and the benefits for existing Monarch users but I know that he said it should support Excel 2013 (whose newer .xlsx format I'm having problems with importing into Monarch v11).

           

          Alex

            • Monarch Version 12
              Guy Chowning

              Alex,

               

              I certainly will be glad to get Version 12. I have tremendous issues with the same issue you are with Excel in Office 13 . The models freeze it may work once the flop it does it again. We can only hope each release will fix these bugs. It has been a long buggy ride since 10.5.

              Thanks

              Guy

                • Monarch Version 12
                  Olly Bond

                  Hello Guy, hello Alex,

                   

                  If Microsoft would stop changing Excel and Windows we'd all have an easier time Seriously, if you need an Excel 2013 file tested against v11.8 please do drop me a line.

                   

                  Best wishes,

                   

                  Olly

                    • Monarch Version 12
                      Nancy10 _

                      It's been a while since I visited here. Has the name of Monarch changed or is it about to? The Datawatch web site is awful - no details, no clarity. Very annoying.

                        • Monarch Version 12
                          Olly Bond

                          Hello Nancy,

                           

                          There's a PDF explaining the change buried under Press Releases in the About Us section of the website.

                           

                          Basically, the next release of Monarch will be Datawatch Modeler.

                           

                          It is still the same idea - teaching your computer how to read a report, using traps and templates, models and projects.

                           

                          Do drop me a line if I can help with any queries.

                           

                          Best wishes,

                           

                          Olly

                            • Monarch Version 12
                              Nancy10 _

                              Hi Olly -

                               

                              Thanks for confirming what I'd pretty much deduced. I just can't get over how uninformative the web site is. How do they expect to sell anything with all that fluff and no substance? For the astronomical price of the product - really a shocking increase in just a few years - you'd think they'd want to want to provide information down to the last detail. Heck, maybe if they provided adequate information, they could sell more of it and reduce the price. Ha.

                               

                              Sorry to carry on so, but I get very crabby about poorly-conceived, badly-organized, vague web sites.

                               

                              Any idea what enhancements are in the new version? Do you know if it's a wholesale re-design? I hope not. I love change, but moving from version 10 to 11 was a steeper learning curve than I would have liked. I've made peace with it at this point, though.

                               

                              The timing is unfortunate for a client of mine that is still using ver. 9. They are ready to upgrade, but I hate to see them move into a dot zero version. We're struggling with some compatibility problems wherein (it seems) models with external lookups created using Win7 and Excel 2010 can't be read by workstations running XP and Excel 2007. We haven't been able to figure out which components cause the non-readability problem. So their IT guy is hesitant to upgrade one workstation without upgrading all at once. There are four Monarch users in the organization, and the models are quite complex. I've emailed Datawatch to ask whether they have information on compatibility among operating system, Monarch version, and Excel version. I searched the forum, but didn't find anything definitive.

                               

                              Nancy

                                • Monarch Version 12
                                  Guy Chowning

                                  I cannot say that I agree more. The Data Watch site is the worst I have seen in the 20 some odd years I have been a customer. I also found that just to upgrade is a terrible experience. What was the worst was trying to prove to them I was a legitimate customer. I scanned the last bill we had that showed we had 8 "CONTRACTS" in place. I had also spent 3 days on and off the phone with Evan Kennedy proving to him I was a Customer, then I had to start that all over again when I tried to get the latest upgrade, I think this guy was trying but he was poorly trained his name was William Esguerra   from Global Support.

                                   

                                  I have not started searching yet but if it keeps getting worse I am going to find another product to use.

                                   

                                  Guy Chowning

                                    • Monarch Version 12
                                      Nancy10 _

                                      Guy, your upgrade story isn't giving me any warm fuzzies. But as a V9 user, my client is going to have to start over anyway with the full version.

                                       

                                      I'm not sure there's a comparable product on the market.

                                        • Monarch Version 12
                                          Guy Chowning

                                          Nancy,

                                          I am really counting on Version 12 to have all the major issues worked out since the 11 came out. If it doesn't I will be searching for an alternative software.

                                          Guy Chowning

                                            • Monarch Version 12

                                              I thought I was the only one who hated the Datawatch Website. It was much easier to find things with the old site. There current site is all glitz and glamour and no substance.

                                               

                                              I just upgraded to V11 from V9. Although I still use V9 for the majority of my work. I have not had the time to do a deep dive into V11 and now they are coming out with V12. I hope I qualify for a free upgrade as the price has gone through the roof. It was a bargin at about $500, but no so anymore.

                                               

                                              I interviewed for a job as a Software Trainer with Datawatch back in 2007. I still wish I had gotten that job, but they would have had to bring me in at the top of the pay scale which I think was the deal killer. I was the only one who had experience with Monarch that applied for the job which I thought was a plus for me, but it didn't work out and I moved on.

                                               

                                              Let's hope V12 is better than V11.

                            • Monarch Version 12
                              joey

                              I also am not pleased with the current Datawatch site.  It is sales oriented, and very unhelpful for the existing user base.

                               

                              We have struggled with numerous V11 bugs, but that is somewhat to be expected when it is a complete re-write.  There have been many fixes, and hopefully they have all the bugs worked out with the new version of the program.

                              • Monarch Version 12
                                joey

                                I don't mean to be a complainer here.  But, it feels so comforting to me to know that many of you are having the same frustration and disappointment that I have - and not just with Monarch V11.  I can understand a rough transition to a complete rewrite of the software with V11 and the new interface. I have the upmost respect for Gareth and his developers.  Datwatch is very fortunate to have a man of his caliber.  To some extent, I understand the website. It is a sales website, no question about it. I suppose they can justify that we have the forums here for technical documentation.  But as you said, there's really no helpful content on the website. One of the things I loved in the past was the "What's New" PDF that would come with each version and help me convince management for an upgrade.  All that I've been able to find for documentation is a 2 page PDF that just explains the concept of Monarch.  I could probably write the same document on my own - not helpful to existing users.

                                 

                                I've noticed the community energy and enthusiasm has really taken a dive over the past few years and in some ways has died out. A part of it has to do with Sandy, but I think it's so much more. There used to be blogs, newsletters, updates, webinars, and so forth on a regular basis.  The annual conference had so much excitement you could feel it in the air.  That was all meaningful to someone like me, even after using the software for 8 years.  Maybe it's just me, but it seems like there was more activity on this forum in the past and a lot of brainstorming and ideas floating freely.  Sadly, I don't see much of that anymore.  I check this forum every month or so instead of daily.  Monarch used to be a product I was passionate about, and trying hard to convince others in the company to use it for their analysis, with some success.  My attitude has shifted to it's another tool we have that I'll use from time to time when it works, and support only when necessary.

                                 

                                This is just my feelings, and I don't mean to be all negative. Monarch and DataPump (while they are called that), still do some amazing things.  I'm still committed to them because of the impact the software has had in the past.  It's just that it's been so much more in the past than just software and a sales team, and I sincerely want it to be more  once again.

                                 

                                Thanks for the thread and comments. I feel better knowing I'm not alone.

                                  • Monarch Version 12
                                    Joe Berry

                                    Joey,

                                     

                                    Well said.  I agree.  Still committed, still use it daily, but the energy of the forum and the software has leveled out. 

                                     

                                    Joe

                                      • Monarch Version 12
                                        Olly Bond

                                        Hello Joey, hello Joe,

                                         

                                        You're both right that since Mike Urbonas as left in 2009 (I think), the marketing has been all style and not much substance. There are, I think, two reasons to be optimistic that things might improve soon.

                                         

                                        Firstly, the re-branding is over, the road-map is clear, and v12 will arrive shortly.

                                         

                                        Secondly, Datawatch have just hired a new director of product marketing, Dan Potter, who is reaching out to forum regulars to listen to suggestions.

                                         

                                        I'd certainly love to hear news about a conference, webinars, a newsletter and so on.

                                         

                                        Best wishes,

                                         

                                        Olly

                                    • Monarch Version 12
                                      joey

                                      Out of curiosity, has there been any anouncement of the name change, new version, or details on the new version to the public? I can't find anything on the web. The only thing I saw on here was the webcase that was recorded on a thread on this board.  I see the new version is available, but I'd like something to show my manager.

                                      • Monarch Version 12
                                        joey

                                        Thanks Olly! Much appreciated.  And thanks for your note of optimism. I agree, and I do have some optimism left. We'll see how V12 pans out.

                                          • Monarch Version 12

                                            Wow. I just found out that V11 doesn't support BAT files. Datawatch wants you to plunk down $25K for an Enterprise Version to do some simple automation tasks.

                                             

                                            I just recently upgraded from V9 to V11. Had I known this I would not have wasted the money. There is a big gap in what some simple BAT files do with what DATAPUMP or whatever it is called these days does. We don't need an elaborate Enterprise Version to do what we use Monarch for. Monarch has priced themselves out of the market on this one.

                                             

                                            I am appalled at this move and how they basicly hid it. No where did they say that they were taking this functionality away in V11 and forcing you to plunk down $25K.

                                             

                                            I will be forced to continue to use V9 and hopefully Datawatch will rethink this drastic move and restore this functionalty in V12.

                                             

                                            I have no problem with Datawatch taking care of the LARGE clients with deep pockets and big automation needs, but lets not forget about the little guy who has helped moved Monarch forward to what it is today. This kind of thinking could be the death of Datawatch. And I used to think that Microsoft was arrogant.

                                             

                                            Wake up Datawatch.

                                              • Monarch Version 12
                                                Olly Bond

                                                Hello Dan,

                                                 

                                                They did announce it - in the small print of the Licence Agreement for v11.5, which wasn't perhaps the most prominent place... but it was quickly picked up on and discussed here on the forums, I think about nine months ago. There was a presentation from a Datawatch VP at a customer event over a year ago confirming the strategy.

                                                 

                                                If you had to upgrade from v9 to v11 then I'd guess that you had perhaps not been paying maintenance for over five years?

                                                 

                                                I have every sympathy with users who rely on desktop automation with Monarch and are now forced to engage with their IT departments for budgets, servers and support, but some sympathy also for Datawatch who can't be expected to keep developing Monarch if people don't pay for support.

                                                 

                                                And, practically, if you reach out to Datawatch sales (just before quarter end is always when they seem to be at their most receptive) and try to reach a constructive compromise, then it shouldn't be impossible to find a way forward that helps everyone.

                                                 

                                                If you'd like a chat - we're completely independent from Datawatch - about the possible options going forward, please do drop me a line.

                                                 

                                                Best wishes,

                                                 

                                                Olly

                                                  • Monarch Version 12
                                                    Joe Berry

                                                    I want to let everyone know about my experience so far with v12.  I downloaded the trial and started using it.  The UI has changed - in a few weeks I believe I will be able to positively say that it has changed for the better.  Right now it is new and I am clumsy, but the design is consistent throughout. 

                                                     

                                                    I ordered the update to v12 for both modeler and desktop for two of our licenses that were under maintenance and a new copy without desktop.  The sales person, Rick Olender, was great.  Took the time to explain all of my options.   Spoke to Evan Kennedy regarding paying support on a copy purchased through a reseller.   I had to be someplace, so we will continue on Monday.  I expect that to be settled then.

                                                     

                                                    I am excited about v12.  An improved interface, better performance and visualization makes it worth taking a look.  I was not a fan of v11, but I am of v12 after just a few hours behind the wheel.

                                                      • Monarch Version 12
                                                        AlexM _

                                                        Like Joe, I'm also quite positive about Datawatch Modeller - also looking at Datawatch Desktop - although I'm only working with the Trial versions for now. Have to say that the initial results are encouraging although there's some basic stuff I can't seem to navigate easily through as an ex-Monarch user.

                                                         

                                                        For example, if you've already created a model or project where a database rather than report is the source, how do you change this source? It used to be under Table/Database Wizard in v11 or File/Database in v10 and prior.

                                                         

                                                        Also, how do you delete an existing Filter? No doubt the solutions are staring me in the face...

                                                         

                                                        Alex

                                                          • Monarch Version 12
                                                            ARICE01 _

                                                            Hi Alex:

                                                             

                                                            I was able to find instructions for deleting Filters in the Modeler Help facility.  Note the following:

                                                             

                                                            Deleting a Filter

                                                            -


                                                            When you delete a filter, Modeler removes the filter name from the Filters dialog. If the filter is applied to the table at the time it is deleted, Modeler re-displays the table using all the available records.

                                                             

                                                            Deleting a Filter

                                                            Select Filters from the Table Design ribbon.

                                                             

                                                            Select the filter you wish to delete on the Filters selector.

                                                             

                                                            Select Delete from the Table Design ribbon.

                                                             

                                                            Caution: Modeler has no undo facility. Once you have pressed Yes, then you cannot reverse the change. Prior to pressing Yes, however, you can press No to reverse the change

                                                            • Monarch Version 12
                                                              Olly Bond

                                                              Like Joe, I'm also quite positive about Datawatch Modeller - also looking at Datawatch Desktop - although I'm only working with the Trial versions for now. Have to say that the initial results are encouraging although there's some basic stuff I can't seem to navigate easily through as an ex-Monarch user.

                                                               

                                                              For example, if you've already created a model or project where a database rather than report is the source, how do you change this source? It used to be under Table/Database Wizard in v11 or File/Database in v10 and prior.

                                                               

                                                              Also, how do you delete an existing Filter? No doubt the solutions are staring me in the face...

                                                               

                                                              Alex[/QUOTE]

                                                               

                                                              Hello Alex,

                                                               

                                                              It's clunky, but if you rename the original database source as something else, then run the project, you do get prompted to "resolve the missing reference" and this lets you browse to a new source...

                                                               

                                                              It might be an idea to let users do that without leaving Monarch...

                                                               

                                                              Best wishes,

                                                               

                                                              Olly

                                                                • Monarch Version 12
                                                                  Joe Berry

                                                                  Hi Olly,

                                                                  I really liked the ability to change the source in the xml projects in v 10.5.  Thanks for the tip - I tried editing the dprj file in a text editor, but that was unsuccessful.  Like you, I would much rather be able to change that without leaving Monarch.

                                                                    • Monarch Version 12
                                                                      AlexM _

                                                                      Thanks for the suggestion, Olly. Changing the source data in this way, however, is somewhat impractical since I frequently need to do this as I work with a variety of different Excel or Access sources rather than text-based reports/data. For that matter, is changing the External Lookups any easier?

                                                                       

                                                                      Perhaps this is something - fundamental I would have thought - that the developers can improve in a future release?

                                                                       

                                                                      Alex

                                                                        • Monarch Version 12
                                                                          Olly Bond

                                                                          Hello Alex,

                                                                           

                                                                          You should be able to edit external lookups easily in Table Design. I like v12's feature of letting you browse the datasets for each lookup in the Table Window. But yes, you're right, the old File > Database trick which remembered all the model's settings and let you point the model to a new source should be made available in the interface.

                                                                           

                                                                          All the best,

                                                                           

                                                                          Olly

                                                                  • Monarch Version 12
                                                                    ARICE01 _

                                                                    Hi Joe:

                                                                     

                                                                    Thanks for this post re: Modeler v12.  I just downloaded an Eval copy of Modeler to take it for a test drive.  I will likely upgrade, but want to ensure my productivity will be enhanced over Monarch Pro v11.8.  Like you, I actually lost productivity with the move up from Monarch Pro v10.x.   Regarding the Desktop product, can you please share your experience with Desktop?  What is the standard single user pricing?  What do you percieve the key benefits for Desktop over Monarch Pro v11? 

                                                                     

                                                                    Please respond at your convenience.  Thanks

                                                                      • Monarch Version 12
                                                                        Joe Berry

                                                                        Hi ARICE01,

                                                                         

                                                                        I do not know the standard pricing.  My copies were on maintenance.

                                                                         

                                                                        I tried v11.x, but just never got used to it.  I did purchase it, but continued to use v10.5.  I downloaded the trial and v12 seemed to work like I do.  After a brief trial I upgraded three copies.  As Alex M, I stumble a bit, but have finished several models.  I am fairly comfortable with it now.  For me the perceived benefits is usability.  Since I did not use v11.x I can't say what new features exist in v12 over v11.x.  I like the additional capacity, the integration with Desktop, and the interface.  This upgrade was well thought out.

                                                                  • Monarch Version 12
                                                                    Chickenman _

                                                                    Wow. I just found out that V11 doesn't support BAT files. Datawatch wants you to plunk down $25K for an Enterprise Version to do some simple automation tasks.

                                                                     

                                                                    I just recently upgraded from V9 to V11. Had I known this I would not have wasted the money. There is a big gap in what some simple BAT files do with what DATAPUMP or whatever it is called these days does. We don't need an elaborate Enterprise Version to do what we use Monarch for. Monarch has priced themselves out of the market on this one.

                                                                     

                                                                    I am appalled at this move and how they basicly hid it. No where did they say that they were taking this functionality away in V11 and forcing you to plunk down $25K.

                                                                     

                                                                    I will be forced to continue to use V9 and hopefully Datawatch will rethink this drastic move and restore this functionalty in V12.

                                                                     

                                                                    I have no problem with Datawatch taking care of the LARGE clients with deep pockets and big automation needs, but lets not forget about the little guy who has helped moved Monarch forward to what it is today. This kind of thinking could be the death of Datawatch. And I used to think that Microsoft was arrogant.

                                                                     

                                                                    Wake up Datawatch.[/QUOTE]

                                                                     

                                                                    As a long-time Monarch user, I hate to add to the negative views and experiences cited by many in this thread, but Datawatch has been in a nose-dive for several years now. The mess that was Monarch V11 is matched only by their website which is beyond useless.

                                                                     

                                                                    Having said that, can anyone provide a source of clear, plain-English descriptions of what these re-branded products actually are, what they do and their cost? And what about the maintenance?

                                                                     

                                                                    Several years ago we were approached by (I believe) a telemarketer advising that Data Pump Professional upgrade (maybe Enterprise) was now mandatory. There were absolutely no featuress of interest so we resisted, preferring to continue the maintenance at ~3K/yr. we had paid religiously. Can't do that this very curt individual replied, but will get us "special pricing"

                                                                    To the tune of 11.5K IIRC. Really special. We declined. BTW, support for that product was extremely poor so we actually got our support from the forum which is always the best!

                                                                     

                                                                    Similarly, we always immediately upgraded Monarch Pro with its never-ending new features. After a Herculean effort with V11, we abandoned, concluding we could no longet "trust" the data given numerous experiences with that very buggy update.

                                                                     

                                                                    Comes now V12. Being completely gun-shy at this point, am not thrilled by the possibility of yet another debacle. Do I understand it is 25K??!!!

                                                                     

                                                                    Oh, and did anyone here get involved with the Monarch Dashboards a few years ago? Most user unfriendly and after a trial we cut our losses on that one.

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                    Seriously, we are in the midst of budgeting this upcoming year but are reluctant to engage their sales who in our experience were not very helpful, and in fact the last time never even responded. Don't know if we yet have local sales person. So if anyone can provide the Rosetta Stone here that would be appreciated.

                                                                      • Monarch Version 12
                                                                        Olly Bond

                                                                        Hello chickenman,

                                                                         

                                                                        Yes, I saw Dashboards, and share your view of that one Please drop me a line at olly@monarchexperts.com[/email] if you'd like a plain English explanation of the server-based products from someone who isn't trying to sell them to you.

                                                                         

                                                                        Best wishes,

                                                                         

                                                                        Olly

                                                                          • Monarch Version 12
                                                                            Guy Chowning

                                                                            Is there another product available that can replace Monarch?

                                                                              • Monarch Version 12
                                                                                Olly Bond

                                                                                Hello Guy,

                                                                                 

                                                                                That would depend on what you're doing with Monarch. There are users, bless them, who use it to open and print text reports. There are other users who buy one desktop licence, stick it on a server, and manage thousands complex of ETL processes using batch files. Remarkably, some of the latter have even let the maintenance on their single licence lapse and seem surprised when they can't cope with a Windows or Excel upgrade.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Doing "report mining", or whatever we call what Monarch or Modeller does, right involves a lot more than just getting the licencing right. Yes, buying the right licences, and managing them properly in line with the software lifecycles of your environment, and managing upgrades smoothly, is all important. But managing the models and projects well is probably even more critical to getting an ROI on the technology.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I've seen lots of Monarch deployments which have been a bit haphazard - models developed by colleagues who have moved on, users who have never dared explore the program (perhaps the grey opening screen was a bit intimidating...) and just run a batch file that IT made for them, users who just get data into a table to do all the work afterwards in Excel...

                                                                                 

                                                                                As ever, if you'd like independent advice from experts, please get in touch.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Best wishes,

                                                                                 

                                                                                Olly

                                                                                  • Monarch Version 12
                                                                                    Guy Chowning

                                                                                    Thanks to Olly for identifying a main issue. Our IT had been loading 64 Bit when in fact it was 32 bit. Olly identified this in 5 minutes and we are still awaiting an answer from the Support Group who had no idea what was causing my pain. Once loaded my export finally did work. I am slow and still learning but perhaps Version 12 has improved!