17 Replies Latest reply: May 15, 2014 10:12 AM by Joe Berry RSS

    Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64

    scottnelson _

      I'm running Monarch v11.0.3.11 on Windows7 x64, a quad-core laptop with 8GB of memory.

       

      I have Office 32-bit installed and hence the 32-bit version of Monarch as well.

       

      Monarch is extremely slow on this machine.  E.g., if I click on Help/About, it takes about 10 seconds for this About Box to pop up.  Not to mention how long it takes to do anything useful inside the application.

       

      Does anyone else experience this?  Any ideas on how to improve the performance?

       

      As best I can tell, that fancy new UI that v11 sports only serves to slow the application down compared to prior versions.

        • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
          Olly Bond

          Hello Scott,

           

          That slick interface does also offer some improved performance, but Monarch does need do a lot of work to process data and there are a couple of things that can help. Firstly, hard disk speed - if you have any encryption turned on, that can impair the speed Monarch takes to write data to and read data from the disk. Second, the new version makes a lot of use of Windows native graphic handling, via the WPF, and you can help by getting your graphics card to support your processor in this. Support should be able to give you chapter and verse, and hopefully assist with the logging options to diagnose further if needed.

           

          HTH

           

          Olly

            • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
              KeyserSoze _

              Further to Olly's comments, Monarch 11 uses the Windows Presentation Foundation and DirectX, and as such it may be beneficial to ensure that you're using the latest DirectX and video drivers.

               

              Here are a few links to some of big names in video:

              AMD/ATI: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx[/URL]

               

              Intel: http://downloadcenter.intel.com/[/URL]

               

              Nvidia: http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us[/URL]

               

              DirectX: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/179113[/URL]

                • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                  Grant Perkins

                  FWIW I have been seeing reports that running 32bit programs under Win 64bit is not the smoothest and fastest system that one might wish for in any type of application.

                   

                  Moreover almost anything new being released for any sort of function is tending to indicate that Win 64 and +4Gb are basic requirements. I see from your information that you have that covered Scott but others may not.  Monarch 32 will not be in a position to use the extra memory anyway bit it may be that in general your most commonly used applications are all still having to work in the 2Gb RAM space. Is that probable? If so it may be a bit crowded in there?

                   

                  It's difficult to know what to suggest other than setting the Windows Monitor to provide performance information and then review what it tells you.

                   

                  Grant

                    • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                      elginreigner _

                      FWIW I have been seeing reports that running 32bit programs under Win 64bit is not the smoothest and fastest system that one might wish for in any type of application.

                       

                      Moreover almost anything new being released for any sort of function is tending to indicate that Win 64 and +4Gb are basic requirements. I see from your information that you have that covered Scott but others may not.  Monarch 32 will not be in a position to use the extra memory anyway bit it may be that in general your most commonly used applications are all still having to work in the 2Gb RAM space. Is that probable? If so it may be a bit crowded in there?

                       

                      It's difficult to know what to suggest other than setting the Windows Monitor to provide performance information and then review what it tells you.

                       

                      Grant[/QUOTE]

                       

                      +1. I can easily see the ram limitation (normally 2GB under 32bit) being your issue. You may have the extra ram, but without a 64 bit install or a LAA program to address more memory, your Monarch install is being choked.

                       

                      I would also as confirm your video drivers and DirectX are updated (most of this is usually done automatically via Windows Update) as KeyserSoze stated. You may also want to see what else is running too. You could have an app in the background sucking down memory as well.

                        • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                          kingpcgeek _

                          Totally agree with OP.  Between the new UI and speed 11 is pretty unusable to me.  I wish I had never spent the $562 to upgrade and left 10.5 on my PC.  I'm usually RDPing into another PC with 10.5 installed to do all of my Monarch work.  That is much faster then trying to do anything locally in 11.

                           

                          The field list is the one that amazes me.  In one model I have it takes 23 seconds to come up in 11.03, 10.5 less than a second.

                           

                          There are also the additional steps that you have to do in 11 for something that you can do in 10.5 with less steps. I had a calculated field I need to duplicate 11 times for the 12 months of the year.

                           

                          Monarch 11:

                          1. Click on the tiny drop down arrow next to Calculated Fields on the ribbon

                          2. Click on the field I want to duplicate

                          3. Click duplicate

                          4. Erase the name from the field since I don't want the field named the same with a 1 after it.

                          4. Type the name of the field

                          5. Make a change to the calculation

                          6. Save

                          7. Repeat 10 more times from step 1 (the tiny arrow part)

                           

                          Monarch 10.5 and earlier:

                          1. Click on the nice big calculate fields button

                          2. Click on the field I want to duplicate

                          3. Click the duplicate button

                          4. Type the name of the field

                          5. Make a change to the calculation

                          6. Save

                          7. Click duplicate ( I don't have to scroll through a list, it has the last record already selected.)

                          8. Start with step 4 again for 10 more times

                           

                           

                          10.5 it is 47 steps (7 for first duplication and 4 x 10 for the next 10 duplications)

                          11.0 is is 66 steps (6 x 11 duplications)

                            • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                              EPblade _

                              Totally agree with OP.  Between the new UI and speed 11 is pretty unusable to me.  I wish I had never spent the $562 to upgrade and left 10.5 on my PC.  I'm usually RDPing into another PC with 10.5 installed to do all of my Monarch work.  That is much faster then trying to do anything locally in 11.

                               

                              The field list is the one that amazes me.  In one model I have it takes 23 seconds to come up in 11.03, 10.5 less than a second.

                               

                              There are also the additional steps that you have to do in 11 for something that you can do in 10.5 with less steps. I had a calculated field I need to duplicate 11 times for the 12 months of the year.

                               

                              Monarch 11:

                              1. Click on the tiny drop down arrow next to Calculated Fields on the ribbon

                              2. Click on the field I want to duplicate

                              3. Click duplicate

                              4. Erase the name from the field since I don't want the field named the same with a 1 after it.

                              4. Type the name of the field

                              5. Make a change to the calculation

                              6. Save

                              7. Repeat 10 more times from step 1 (the tiny arrow part)

                               

                              Monarch 10.5 and earlier:

                              1. Click on the nice big calculate fields button

                              2. Click on the field I want to duplicate

                              3. Click the duplicate button

                              4. Type the name of the field

                              5. Make a change to the calculation

                              6. Save

                              7. Click duplicate ( I don't have to scroll through a list, it has the last record already selected.)

                              8. Start with step 4 again for 10 more times

                               

                               

                              10.5 it is 47 steps (7 for first duplication and 4 x 10 for the next 10 duplications)

                              11.0 is is 66 steps (6 x 11 duplications)[/QUOTE]

                               

                              Totaly agreed the new version has a step back......... in old versio you can go thru the calculated field and see the formula inside ... now you dont , and  the handle of the summaries is a now fromr drag and drop to check where you are right/left to add a column

                                • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                                  Chickenman _

                                  Agree with all who think this version is a step back. We abandoned it and reverted to the well-performing 10.5 after fighting with v11 for a few weeks. As far as I can tell v11 sacrificed functionality to introduce a ribbon and that's pretty sad.

                                   

                                  CM

                                    • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                                      kingpcgeek _

                                      I recently decided to give 11.x another chance after not touching it for over a year to see if the performance issues have corrected.  I just ran a test of the search function in report view searching for one string. The report is 4,231 pages long and the string is on page 4,076.  With 10.5 the string was found in less than a second.  Now the disturbing part, 11.6.11 took 14 minutes to find the same string.  While it looks like some things have improved it still doesn't look like its usable at my company.

                                        • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                                          Joe Berry

                                          I just did the same thing - tried v11 after not using it for over a year.  My result were the opposite.  I am using a dual core 2.1 GHz laptop with just 4 GB of RAM.  I found the performance to be acceptable.  I just did your test and I did find it to take longer than 10.5.  I can live with that as it is more responsive on some of my other tasks.

                                • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                                  kingpcgeek _

                                  FWIW I have been seeing reports that running 32bit programs under Win 64bit is not the smoothest and fastest system that one might wish for in any type of application.[/QUOTE]

                                   

                                  Not even close to true.

                                    • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                                      elginreigner _

                                      Not even close to true.[/QUOTE]

                                       

                                      Can you elaborate?

                                        • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                                          kingpcgeek _

                                          Can you elaborate?[/QUOTE]

                                           

                                          There is absolutely no performance degradation when running 32bit programs on Window 7 x64 over the x32 version.  In fact one could say it is the opposite since x64 can address the memory space over 3gb which means less caching to disk when running multiple applications.

                                            • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                                              elginreigner _

                                              There is absolutely no performance degradation when running 32bit programs on Window 7 x64 over the x32 version.  In fact one could say it is the opposite since x64 can address the memory space over 3gb which means less caching to disk when running multiple applications.[/QUOTE]

                                               

                                              This is true if the application installed is 64bit, if it's 32bit it will still only address 2GB, 3GB if it's programmed or an LAA program is used. The OS may be able to use more RAM, but it is still dependent upon the application.

                                                • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                                                  kingpcgeek _

                                                  This is true if the application installed is 64bit, if it's 32bit it will still only address 2GB, 3GB if it's programmed or an LAA program is used. The OS may be able to use more RAM, but it is still dependent upon the application.[/QUOTE]

                                                   

                                                  I did not say each application is going to use more then 2gb. I said less caching to disk when multiple applications are open.

                                                • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                                                  kingpcgeek _

                                                  Monarch isn't the the latest Call of Duty.  There should be no discussions involving updating/downgrading video drivers or DirectX to have a piece of business productivity software run properly.  I open a copy of Excel 2010 on my PC and it opens in 1½ seconds, I open a copy of Monarch and it takes 12 seconds, sorry that isn't a video driver issue.  I open a field list in 11 it takes 23 seconds, 10.5 less than a second, that isn't a video driver issue as well.

                                                   

                                                  BTW WIE is 7.3, graphics are 7.4, low being the SSD hard drive at 7.3

                                                    • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                                                      Gareth Horton

                                                      Hi KingPcGeek,

                                                       

                                                      It is a byproduct of using WPF.  Excel does not use WPF, it is still written in a combination of C++ and assembly.

                                                       

                                                      Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 uses WPF.  If you search for "visual studio 2010 wpf performance issues" or similar, you will find their customers encountering similar issues.

                                                       

                                                      On my machine, Monarch opens in approximately 6 seconds.  I have 2 Windows 2008 R2 VMs running SQL 2008R2 and apps, plus my host machine has SQL 2008R2 and several apps open.

                                                       

                                                      It's a well-specified laptop, quad-core, 8GB RAM, about 2 years old.

                                                       

                                                      ======================= Monarch Core 11.1.17.0 =======================

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: TraceLevel: Maximum

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: Activation enabled

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: Windows Version: 6.1.7601.65536 Service Pack 1

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: ExecutionFormat: 32-bit

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: ** System.Data, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: ** System.Numerics, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: IsAceInstalled: True

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: OleDbProviderName: Microsoft Office 12.0 Access Database Engine OLE DB Provider

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: AceCorePath: C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\microsoft shared\OFFICE12\acecore.dll

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: AceCoreVersion: 12.0.6423.1000

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: AceCoreMachineType: IMAGE_FILE_MACHINE_I386

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: AceOledbProviderPath: C:\PROGRA2\COMMON1\MICROS~1\OFFICE12\ACEOLEDB.DLL

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: AceOledbProviderVersion: 12.0.6423.1000

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: AceOledbProviderMachineType: IMAGE_FILE_MACHINE_I386

                                                      2012-01-25T20:02:44: PERFORMANCE: Startup, 00:00:05.870

                                                       

                                                      The field list contains much more functionality than in V10, and combined with the WPF overhead, it is certainly slower.  It will come up much more quickly in the next release, based on your feedback from a previous post on the forum.

                                                       

                                                      We are hoping that Microsoft and the graphics card manufacturers will improve on WPF performance over time.

                                                       

                                                      Thanks

                                                       

                                                      Gareth

                                        • Monarch 11 - slow performance on Win7 x64
                                          Gareth Horton

                                          Hi Scott,

                                           

                                          Bringing up the About box should be instantaneous on such a system.

                                           

                                          Try disabling hardware rendering of WPF by going into Options|View and checking Software Rendering.

                                           

                                          If performance improves, it's going to be a graphics card issue.

                                           

                                          I am currently using an older ATI FirePro driver on my laptop, as the new one did not work well with any WPF / Silverlight applications.

                                           

                                          There are various updates for the .NET 4 Framework that try to alleviate the problem, but display performance is totally dependent on the graphics subsystem.

                                           

                                          I am going to try and create a document on this issue, as it will be too long for a forum post.

                                           

                                          For now, I would certainly consider installing the .NET 4.0 updates:

                                           

                                          http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2468871[/url]

                                           

                                          http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2533523[/url]

                                           

                                          If Software Rendering works faster than the default hardware rendering, you might want to update (and even downgrade) your graphics drivers to see if performance improves with hardware rendering.

                                           

                                          Note that you will need to rerun the Windows Experience Index after installing graphics drivers to get any benefit. This refreshes the metrics and other data used for WPF rendering.

                                           

                                          Gareth