21 Replies Latest reply: May 15, 2014 10:07 AM by Olly Bond RSS

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    ijswalker _

      I have Monarch V9 Standard and I am getting ready to upgrade to V10 Pro Network version. However, the main reason why I am upgrading to V10 pro is for the ability to open PDF files and extract information from there. The saleman says that this would work fine but I get the feeling that this may not be the case. At work we have version 10.01 and it gives errors when opening a PDF. Does anyone have experience of handling PDF's with Monarch. Will the PDF truly open in Monarch v10 Pro and allow data extraction?

       

      Thanks

       

      Ian

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          Olly Bond

          Hello Ian,

           

          I'm a (recovering) Datawatch salesman, so you might want to get a second opinion But seriously, yes, I've not found a PDF file that couldn't be handled, as long as the text could be copied and pasted to Notepad. If you've got PDF files that have selectable text, but don't work in Monarch, I'd like to see them!

           

          If you do get some strange data, there are a few tricks - print the PDF to XPS and try that, or if the spacing is a problem, look at a two-pass approach or a trick with multi-column regions. Modelling for PDFs is harder than for text reports - you have to stop and think about what might happen when the spacing varies and so you do have to do a bit of verification and trimming - but it definitely does work.

           

          HTH,

           

          Olly

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              ijswalker _

              Hi Olly,

               

              I tried the copy to notepad method. In the pdf it is laid out the way I want it but as soon as I copy the document into notepad it puts the columns, what looks like, all in column. Any suggestions on settings?

               

              Ian

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                  Olly Bond

                  Hello Ian,

                   

                  I've you've got v10, then you've got access to the Column() function in Monarch which will make life much easier. Is your data like this?

                   

                  Jan   Feb   Mar

                  123   456   789

                  /CODE

                   

                  In other words, do you have data on the same row in your PDF that you want to have on multiple rows in your table?

                   

                  If you can email the PDF over to me on olly@greenbar.info[/email] I'll have a bash at it...

                   

                  Best wishes,

                   

                  Olly

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                      Joe Berry

                      I have used PDF from a hospital information system almost exclusively for my reporting needs.  Never had a single issue.  I have somewhere around 200 different models.

                       

                      I also have used a free pdf writer - CutePDF to produce PDF files when I had no way other way to get an electronic file.   No problems there either.

                       

                      If the PDF is text based and it is a fairly standard PDF, I think you will be fine.

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                          ijswalker _

                          Hi everyone,

                           

                          Thanks for your input. This gives me comfort that I will indeed receive the product I am looking for. I should be receiving it in the next week or so. I'll let you know how it goes.

                           

                          Joe - I also use a hospital information system and would be intrigued to know which one you use.

                           

                          Thanks

                           

                          Ian

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                              Joe Berry

                              I am a consultant, so I get to see a variety of systems, but the one I have worked at most recently is CPSI.  The one I worked with the longest was from McKesson.  It was phased out around 2003.  I have also used Meditech, and many other less known systems.

                               

                              Which one do you work with?

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                                  ijswalker _

                                  Hi Joe,

                                   

                                  I work with Lawson. This is for the standard financials Purchasing, GL, Ap etc.

                                   

                                  Ian

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                                      Bob Gasior

                                      Hi Ian,

                                       

                                      I agree with all these posts and don't remember finding a PDF file that monarch will not open.  I get a lot of PDF's from our inventory and purchasing systems which are on a Mainframe.  Each upgrade of Monarch has handled the spacing problems better. I use to have to make a lot of adjustments in version 9.  Now with 10.5 Pro I just open them and apply my models.  You did not mention the error messages you are getting which makes it harder to help you.

                                       

                                      I do hope you are taking advantage of doing Projects in Monarch.  Lawson works great for that because the output file name is always the same.  AP265 is always the check register, AP175 is the invoice posting, GL293 income statement, etc.  I just open the project name and Monarch automatically opens the file and model and all I do is export.

                                       

                                      Good luck in solving your problems.

                                      Bob G

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                                          ijswalker _

                                          Hi,

                                          I now have Monarch 10.5 installed and when I open a PDF I get the following message.

                                           

                                          (File) is not a valid PDF File. It will be opened as plain text.

                                           

                                          I have used the help to see why this message appears and it says that the PDF is probabaly corrupt. I tried the suggestion of resaving the abobe file but that doesn't seem to work either. I don't understand why that would be. Any PDF I open whether it is created by myself or sent through e-mail does this. Is there something I need to configure?

                                           

                                          Thanks

                                           

                                          Ian

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                                              ijswalker _

                                              Further update:

                                               

                                              I have 3 other colleagues who have had the same version installed and the the same PDF works on their PC's but not mine.

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                                                  Grant Perkins

                                                  Further update:

                                                   

                                                  I have 3 other colleagues who have had the same version installed and the the same PDF works on their PC's but not mine.[/quote]

                                                  Ian,

                                                   

                                                  Looking back through the forum posts where this problem is mentioned,there does not seem to be a conclusive resolution posted and your particular circumstances are reported by others. Very odd.

                                                   

                                                  Did all of you have a version of Monarch installed on the now updated machines before moving to 10.5? If so was if 9 standard as you had?

                                                   

                                                  Clearly something somewhere in the depths of the system is different between machines but identifying what that difference may take a while.

                                                   

                                                  Have you uninstalled 9 Standard before upgrading to 10.5 Pro? I have no idea if that should matter but it may provide a clue as to the wherebouts of the lost piece of the jigsaw.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Grant

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                                                      ijswalker _

                                                      Hi Grant,

                                                       

                                                      We had Version 9 standard. This was then removed and we have had version 10.5 installed from scratch on the network server.

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                                                          Grant Perkins

                                                          Hi Grant,

                                                           

                                                          We had Version 9 standard. This was then removed and we have had version 10.5 installed from scratch on the network server.[/quote]

                                                           

                                                          All the machjines had 9 standard?

                                                           

                                                          All have been upgraded in the same way?

                                                           

                                                          Are they all, in theory, identical machines in terms of operating system installation and so on?

                                                           

                                                          It's surely wierd but not uncommon reading back through the forum threads.

                                                           

                                                          I.T. eh? Who needs it?

                                                           

                                                          Maybe it's time to co-ordinate an equiry post to all the previous problem owners to see if they have managed to resolve the issue or are still working around it.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Grant

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                                                              ijswalker _

                                                              Hi Grant,

                                                               

                                                              Yes all have the 9 standard. All identical machines. All on the same network. Since my last post we have removed and reinstalled Adobe Acrobat Professional V9 and also Monarch v10.5 to see if that would do the trick but still no resolution. I get the same message again.

                                                               

                                                              Ian

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                                                                  Grant Perkins

                                                                  Hi Grant,

                                                                   

                                                                  Yes all have the 9 standard. All identical machines. All on the same network. Since my last post we have removed and reinstalled Adobe Acrobat Professional V9 and also Monarch v10.5 to see if that would do the trick but still no resolution. I get the same message again.

                                                                   

                                                                  Ian[/quote]

                                                                   

                                                                  Ian,

                                                                   

                                                                  Earlier you mentioned a machine that had 10.01 installed but still had problems with pdfs. Is that machine now upgraded to 10.5? Does it still have problems?

                                                                   

                                                                  One simple thing I don't think we have yet covered but probably should for completeness before looking elsewhere .... when you open a PDF in Monarch the input screen allows alternative PDF Conversion engines to be specified - one for each version and release since the PDF functionality was introduced. At installation the default will normally be the engine for the current version but if systems have been upgraded to previous settings may persist. Have you been able to try different options for the import?

                                                                   

                                                                  For example I tried a PDF generated with Distiller V8 and password protected. Runnubg V10.5 but set to the conversion engine for Monarch Pro V8 PDF conversion was unable to understand the password. Version 9 and above seem to be OK with that particular issue..

                                                                   

                                                                  I think there is clearly 'variable' anomaly somewhere on your machine - reason unidentified to date.

                                                                   

                                                                  It could be a setting in the registry or maybe some other form of file checking mechanism. Or it might be a rogue sub-program of some sort that the other machines do not have. Are all windows and MS Office updates applied to all machines? (Up to whatever level your IT department suppots.)

                                                                   

                                                                  If you open the PDF file in a recent version of the Acrobat Reader and look at the Properties it should tell you which version of PDF has been used to create it. It's a long shot but that might offer a clue about what to look at next.

                                                                   

                                                                  Beyond that it's difficult to know what to suggest.

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  Grant

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                                                                      elginreigner _

                                                                      Yea that sounds more system based than a Monarch error. The first thing your IT will suggest is a re-install of Monarch.

                                                                       

                                                                      I read someone mention a spacing issue with PDF, but did not see anyone mention the monospace option for PDF, this has fixed every problem I have ever had with spacing issues (assuming the client stays on the same PDF engine and I dont have to update my model)

                                                                       

                                                                      The last as you probably dont want to hear, is to replace the PDF with XPS as it is much more consistent.

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                                                                          JeanR _

                                                                          I run V8 Professional and get the same error message on SOME of my PDF's but not all.  According to the document properties, the PDF versions are different. The PDF created by PDF Version 1.6 -  Adobe Acrobat Pro 9.3.1 will not work, yet the PDF created by PDF Version 1.3 - PrimoPDF works.

                                                                           

                                                                          We were considering upgrading our Monarch, but won't if we will continue to get the same error message.  I was hoping that Monarch would work with any PDF format.  Thoughts?

                                                                           

                                                                          JeanR

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                                                                              Olly Bond

                                                                              Hello Jean,

                                                                               

                                                                              In Monarch Pro 10.5, I have the option to use PDF import engines 8.00, 8.01, 8.02, 9.00, 9.01, 10.00 and 10.50. With every release of Monarch, the developers add the functionality to process different types of PDF.

                                                                               

                                                                              If you've got an example PDF you can send me, I'd be happy to confirm whether it opens OK in Monarch 10.5.

                                                                               

                                                                              Best wishes,

                                                                               

                                                                              Olly

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                                              jzierden _

                                              I'm having an issue with templates that I setup for a pdf file.  Can anyone offer any advice? Each month I receive very large invoices from our vendor in PDF format.  I setup a template and had it working very well.  The next month the templates wouldn't pull in all of the data because the spacing moved over 3-4 characters to the left or right.  I had to modify the template to get it to work.  Each month it changes slightly. I think the problem might be because I don't have a full version of Adobe Professional.  Our company uses a free software called PDF Redirect.  Anyone have any experiences with this?  Any suggestions?

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                                                  Data Kruncher

                                                  Hello and welcome to the forum.

                                                   

                                                  Which version of Monarch are you using? When importing the PDF file, in the PDF options dialog, for v8 and v9, try increasing the "output scaling" value. For v10, increase the "stretch" value.

                                                   

                                                  [URL="http://********************/calcfield/using-monarch-for-data-entry-validation"]This problem[/URL] with values sliding horizontally on the line is a frequent challenge, but it generally can be overcome. It's a frustrating problem, to be sure.

                                                   

                                                  Can you get the report in the XPS format instead of PDF? It's [URL="http://********************/tips/new-year-new-features"]much more predictable and reliable[/URL] in terms of working with Monarch.

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                                                      Olly Bond

                                                      Hello Jzierden,

                                                       

                                                      Data in PDFs will appear to move from month to month - that's because of the way that white space and characters are encoded in PDFs. As a result, you have to adopt a slightly different approach to model-building for data from PDFs than you would from a text report. I tend to use the floating trap a lot more, as well as preceding string options, and to grab very large field selections which I then clean up in the table window using calculated fields.

                                                       

                                                      If you can share a couple of example PDFs and the model, I'd be happy to have a look at it and suggest whether some of these techniques might save you from a monthly rebuild. The best address to use is olly@greenbar.info[/email].

                                                       

                                                      Best wishes,

                                                       

                                                      Olly