8 Replies Latest reply: May 15, 2014 9:53 AM by Grant Perkins RSS

    Multiple Models or Separate Sessions for Each Model

    sxschech _

      Hi.  I am trying to extract data from a "canned" report using 8.01.  The report is from another system, so I don't have control over other sorting methods.  The report is sorted by name, however detail data are presented in vertical fashion.  Also, the data elements in the vertical portion can spill over pages and can have different field types and data depending on whether the person is a Freshman, Transfer, Grad, etc.  I created a model for the report and then discovered that the model won't accommodate all the student types.  Additionally, the data elements can be different within a student type depending on whether the student is domestic or international.  Can I somehow have several models for the same report to accommodate each data type and be able to produce a single output, or do I need to run each model separately and export the results and then combine afterwards or is there another approach?  Another option is to run the report for each type, but then that means remembering the codes and creating a bunch of additional reports.

        • Multiple Models or Separate Sessions for Each Model
          Grant Perkins

          Hi sxschech,

           

          Difficult one to answer since it is likely VERY report layout and data content specific.

           

          Even if you run the processed separately, in either way you have already considered, can you be sure you can successfully re-combine the data into a single output without any interpretation anomalies?

           

          If you cannot then seeking a single pass solution would seem to be unlikely to produce a good result.

           

          So considering the problem backwards from the final output, is there a way of presenting the data in a table that, per record, shows all the fields possible from the report and identifies which pieces of data pertain to each record - the codes or values or count measures for summaries - in a manageable format? How many columns (i.e. fields) would this task require?

           

          If that seems viable go back to the report and assess whether the format is consistent enough to be able to extract data from the rows and columns of the different sections with a single model's template or series of templates. Don't worry too much if the data content and meaning changes in each field. If the fields vary position or size (or maybe type though that need not be a constraint in all cases) a single extraction may not be viable, although each case needs to be cnsidered on its merits.

           

          If the positioning is the same but the interpretation changes (as you have suggested already that it does) is there enough information available from combinations of codes or other identifiers to know how to interpret the data accurately from the extraction and report it as required? Do the variable fields have unique 'tags' to indicate what they are reporting? Can you leverage those using the advanced field properties 'Preceding String' functionality to identify what the data are for?

           

          Records going over page breaks should not be a problem in most cases -  a Page Header template could be expected to help with that issue.

           

          If you can post a sample of the report with typical variances we could do a deeper assessment. If not a 'real' report (or from a test system) a mock up which accurately represents the problems and issues would be fine.

           

          HTH.

           

           

          Grant

          • Multiple Models or Separate Sessions for Each Model
            John Moody

            I've had to deal with what I imagine are similarly formated reports in the Healthcare world.  A sample report would be nice.  I would try to attack the multi-line detail as a single append trap (and clean up the contents with calculated fields using string functions).  Play with the Detail and Header templates to organize the data extract the way you need.  Difficult to go further without a sample.

             

            John

            • Multiple Models or Separate Sessions for Each Model
              sxschech _

              I am inserting a sample of the report.  Appologies for length, but trying to show some of the different output data elements.  Below the report, I included a sample monarch capture.  We aren't planning on capturing all the fields for each person, so I "twisted" the data so that it would line up easier for viewing.  As you will see in the example for Solka, she has a priority 1 and a priority 2 and this caused Monarch (based on the template model I created) to get misaligned since the student has more than one priority but each student will only have one checklist section.  Hope this helps to visualize the output and thanks again.

               

              [font="courier"]30-MAY-2007 11:23:30                                    XXXXX PPRD Instance                                               PAGE 1  

              200820                                             Admissions Application Report                                          SARADMS                                                                               

              Applications by Name, Term, Application Number                                                                               

              Id                       Name              Term    Appl            Title       Code            Description                                                                               

              1234567   Able Griffin L               200820  1                                                                               

              Appl:       Stdnt Type  T               Transfer                                                                               

              Admit Type  AT              Transfer                                                                               

              Recr Type                                                                               

              Recruiter                                                                               

              Residence   I               International/non-U.S Resident     

                                                                                 Session                                                                               

              F/P                                                                               

              Site                                                                               

              App Status  I               Incomplete items outstanding       

                                                                                 Decision    HO              Hold (Alternative Status)          

                                                                                 Ed Levl                                                                               

              Ed Goal                                                                               

              Interview                                                                               

              Rate                                                                               

              Wthd Reas   PR              Personal                                                                               

              Inst Attd                                                                               

              Priority    1                                                                               

              Level       UG              Undergraduate                                                                               

              Degree      BA              Bachelor of Arts                                                                               

              Program     BA-POLS         Politics                                                                               

              College     LA              College of Arts and Sciences       

                                                                                 Campus                                                                               

              Major       POLS            Politics                                                                               

              Checklist:  Code        Mandatory       Description              Received                                                                               

              APPF                        Application Fee          21-MAY-2007

                                                                                 CERT        Y               Certificate of Finance                                                                               

              CLT1        Y               College Transcript                                                                               

              ESSY                        Essay/Personal Statement           

                                                                                 REC1        Y               Letter of Recommendation           

                                                                                 TOFL        Y               TOEFL                                                                               

              1234568   Alpaca Llama M                200820  1                                                                               

              Appl:       Stdnt Type  T               Transfer                                                                               

              Admit Type  AT              Transfer                                                                               

              Recr Type                                                                               

              Recruiter                                                                               

              Residence   I               International/non-U.S Resident     

                                                                                 Session                                                                               

              F/P                                                                               

              Site                                                                               

              App Status  I               Incomplete items outstanding       

                                                                                 Decision    WB              Stu withdrawn before accept        

                                                                                 Ed Levl                                                        

              30-MAY-2007 11:23:30                                    XXXXX PPRD Instance                                               PAGE 2  

              200820                                             Admissions Application Report                                          SARADMS                                                                               

              Applications by Name, Term, Application Number                                                                               

              Id                       Name              Term    Appl            Title       Code            Description                        

              (Continued)                                                                               

              123458   Alpaca Llama M                200820  1                                                                               

              Ed Goal                                                                               

              Interview                                                                               

              Rate                                                                               

              Wthd Reas                                                                               

              Inst Attd                                                                               

              Priority    1                                                                               

              Level       UG              Undergraduate                                                                               

              Degree      BBA             BS in Business Administration      

                                                                                 Program     BBA-BFIN        Finance                                                                               

              College     BN              School of Business                                                                               

              Campus                                                                               

              Major       BFIN            Finance                                                                               

              Checklist:  Code        Mandatory       Description              Received                                                                               

              APPF                        Application Fee                                                                               

              CERT        Y               Certificate of Finance                                                                               

              CLT1        Y               College Transcript                                                                               

              ESSY                        Essay/Personal Statement           

                                                                                 REC1        Y               Letter of Recommendation           

                                                                                 TOFL        Y               TOEFL                                                                               

              1234569   Banner David B                 200820  1                                                                               

              Appl:       Stdnt Type  G               Graduate                                                                               

              Admit Type  GR              Graduate                                                                               

              Recr Type                                                                               

              Recruiter                                                                               

              Residence   D               U.S Citizen/Perm Resident          

                                                                                 Session                                                                               

              F/P                                                                               

              Site                                                                               

              App Status  I               Incomplete items outstanding       

                                                                                 Decision                                                                               

              Ed Levl                                                                               

              Ed Goal                                                                               

              Interview                                                                               

              Rate                                                                               

              Wthd Reas                                                                               

              Inst Attd                                                                               

              Priority    1                                                                               

              Level       GR              Graduate                                                                               

              Degree      MA              Master of Arts                                                                               

              Program     MA-APS          Asia Pacific Studies                                                                               

              College     LA              College of Arts and Sciences       

                                                                                 Campus                                                                               

              Major       APS             Asia Pacific Studies                                                                               

              30-MAY-2007 11:23:30                                    XXXXX PPRD Instance                                               PAGE 3  

              200820                                             Admissions Application Report                                          SARADMS                                                                               

              Applications by Name, Term, Application Number                                                                               

              Id                       Name              Term    Appl            Title       Code            Description                        

              (Continued)                                                                               

              1234569   Banner David B                 200820  1                                                                               

              Checklist:  Code        Mandatory       Description              Received                                                                               

              APPF                        Application Fee          25-MAY-2007

                                                                                 CLT1        Y               College Transcript       25-MAY-2007

                                                                                 ESSY        Y               Essay/Personal Statement 25-MAY-2007

                                                                                 REC1        Y               Letter of Recommendation 25-MAY-2007

                                                                                 REC2        Y               Letter of Recommendation 25-MAY-2007

               

              1234560   Solka Maloka N                  200820  1                                                                               

              Appl:       Stdnt Type  T               Transfer                                                                               

              Admit Type  AT              Transfer                                                                               

              Recr Type                                                                               

              Recruiter                                                                               

              Residence   D               U.S Citizen/Perm Resident                                                                               

              Session                                                                               

              F/P                                                                               

              Site                                                                               

              App Status  D               Decision Made                                                                               

              Decision    PH              Paid Housing Deposit                                                                               

              Ed Levl                                                                               

              Ed Goal                                                                               

              Interview                                                                               

              Rate                                                                               

              Wthd Reas                                                                               

              Inst Attd                                                                               

              Priority    1                                                                               

              Level       UG              Undergraduate                                                                               

              Degree      BA              Bachelor of Arts                                                                               

              Program     BA-PSYC         Psychology                                            

              30-MAY-2007 11:23:30                                    XXXXX PPRD Instance                                               PAGE 29                    

              200820                                             Admissions Application Report                                          SARADMS                                                                               

              Applications by Name, Term, Application Number                                                                               

              Id                       Name              Term    Appl            Title       Code            Description                                           

              (Continued)                                                                               

              1234560   Solka Maloka N                  200820  1                                                                               

              College     LA              College of Arts and Sciences                                                                               

              Campus                                                                               

              Major       PSYC            Psychology                                                                               

              Priority    2                                                                               

              Level       UG              Undergraduate                                                                               

              Degree      BA              Bachelor of Arts                                                                               

              Program     BA-PSYC         Psychology                                                                               

              College     LA              College of Arts and Sciences                                                                               

              Campus                                                                               

              Major       PSYC            Psychology                                                                               

              Checklist:  Code        Mandatory       Description              Received                                                                               

              APPF                        Application Fee          22-MAY-2007                                                                               

              CLT1        Y               College Transcript       22-MAY-2007                                                                               

              ESSY                        Essay/Personal Statement 22-MAY-2007                                                                               

              REC1        Y               Letter of Recommendation 22-MAY-2007                                                                               

              TSTS        Y               SAT or ACT Scores (SELF) 22-MAY-2007     

               

               

               

              ID             9876531             987532

              FullName     Misden Georis     Solka Maloka

              Term             200820        200820

              Appl             1            1

              StdntType     T             T

              AdmitType     AT             AT

              ApStatus     D             D

              Residence     D             D

              Decision     WA             PH

              Level             UG           UG

              Degree             BA           BA

              Program             BA-UNLA             BA-PSYC

              College             LA           LA

              APPF                          B

              APPF_DATE     22-May-07     

              CERT             Y            B

              CERT_DATE          

              CLT1                          L

              CLT1_DATE     22-May-07     ces

              ESSY             Y     

              ESSY_DATE          

              REC1                          P

              REC1_DATE          

              TOEFL          

              TOEFL_DATE                P               /font[/quote]

              • Multiple Models or Separate Sessions for Each Model
                Grant Perkins

                Hi,

                 

                In Solka's case here the Priority 1 and 2 produce the same info. Do you need both sets if they are different? The example output seems to suggest not.

                 

                Currently I am thinking the 'Priority' thru 'Major' section as the DETAIL (you would get duplication in Solka's case but is that an issue - if not required excluding by filter would be easy).

                 

                 

                Above that, from the Student Name line to the

                Inst Attd line would be an append.

                 

                The Checklist section would be a footer append.

                 

                Define  an append for the Page Header lines to ensure the assessment passes smoothly over the header lines.

                 

                See if that suggestion works for the whole report to some extent and lets take it from there.

                 

                HTH.

                 

                 

                Grant

                • Multiple Models or Separate Sessions for Each Model
                  sxschech _

                  Grant,

                  Thanks for responding.  I followed your steps and it seems to be working for all but the checklist items.  As for Solka, the data were copied and pasted quickly.  Priorities other than 1 would only show up if the information differs, such as if the person had chosen a different major or college so that if they aren't able to get into their first choice, they can be placed in their second choice.                                                                               

                  I copied a couple of checklist sections that did not come through the template properly for review.  Since I don't know how to colour code or shade the area to make it look like a Monarch selection, I am using "M".  The one that has M    MMMMMMMMMMM indicates that Monarch is selecting this area, even though the row is blank.  The ones that have M under the Checklist heading on the left side of the report indicate that Monarch did not include these as part of the check list template.

                   

                  [font="courier"]                                                                               

                  Checklist:  Code        Mandatory       Description              Received                                                                               

                  APPF                        Application Fee          25-MAY-2007   

                                                                                     CLT1        Y               College Transcript       25-MAY-2007   

                                                                                     ESSY        Y               Essay/Personal Statement 25-MAY-2007   

                                                                                     REC1        Y               Letter of Recommendation 25-MAY-2007   

                                                                                     REC2        Y               Letter of Recommendation 25-MAY-2007                                                                               

                  M                                        MMMMMMMMMMM                                                                               

                  Checklist:  Code        Mandatory       Description              Received                                                                               

                  APPF                        Application Fee                                                                               

                  ESSY        Y               Essay/Personal Statement                                                                               

                  HST1        Y               High School Transcript                                                                               

                  HSTF                        Final     High     School                                                                               

                  Transcript                                                                               

                  REC1        Y               Letter of Recommendation               

                                                                          M          TSTS        Y               SAT or ACT Scores (SELF) 25-MAY-2007   

                                                                          M          TSTT        Y               SAT or ACT Scores (TAPE)               

                                                                         Checklist:  Code        Mandatory       Description              Received                                                                               

                  APPF                        Application Fee          25-MAY-2007   

                                                                                     CLT1        Y               College Transcript       25-MAY-2007   

                                                                                     CLT2        Y               College Transcript       25-MAY-2007   

                                                                                     CLT3        Y               College Transcript       25-MAY-2007   

                                                                                     ESSY        Y               Essay/Personal Statement 25-MAY-2007   

                                                                                     REC1        Y               Letter of Recommendation 25-MAY-2007   

                                                                            M        REC2        Y               Letter of Recommendation 25-MAY-2007   

                                                                            M        RESU        Y               Resume                   25-MAY-2007    /font[/quote]

                  • Multiple Models or Separate Sessions for Each Model
                    Grant Perkins

                    Originally posted by sxschech:

                    Grant,

                    Thanks for responding.  I followed your steps and it seems to be working for all but the checklist items.  As for Solka, the data were copied and pasted quickly.  Priorities other than 1 would only show up if the information differs, such as if the person had chosen a different major or college so that if they aren't able to get into their first choice, they can be placed in their second choice. /b[/quote]AH! Ok I understand although not sure what you might want to do with it. I would still be tempted to select the sections as detail and simply filter out (or rather IN) by some sort of rule based filter.

                     

                    I think ....

                     

                     

                    Originally posted by sxschech:

                                                                  I copied a couple of checklist sections that did not come through the template properly for review.  Since I don't know how to colour code or shade the area to make it look like a Monarch selection, I am using "M".  The one that has M    MMMMMMMMMMM indicates that Monarch is selecting this area, even though the row is blank.  The ones that have M under the Checklist heading on the left side of the report indicate that Monarch did not include these as part of the check list template.

                     

                    /b[/quote]OK, I figured from your earlier post there may be some variability in the checklist sections.

                     

                    Can you determine a minimum number of lines for a template sample that represents the smallest Checklist block?

                     

                    For example the block with extra lines has 5 'real' data lines. for our purposes you could use the space line and the title/column header line above the 'real' data and, maybe, the line below if there is always a blank line there in the report. So 8 lines in total. (But other records may be smaller?). Some records will have more lines. I'll work with 8 for now.

                     

                    Next: How many possible codes are there IN TOTAL for the CODE column? Alternatively, of the number of possible codes how many of them do you need to extract? Your original sample of the extraction that relates to the checklist section suggests only 6 codes are required, but ....

                     

                    So, in the footer (we may need to review whether to use a foooter or a 'cheat' append for this if we can't fit all the codes into a single template) I would paint a field in the first row (ignore the data sample) to collect any data in the MANDATORY column (widest string tells the width required). Go go the field's Advanced Properties and set the 'Start field on' to be a preceding string of, for example, "APPF". Give the field a suitable name.

                     

                    On the same line paint another field where the "Received" column appears. Use the same preceding sting idea. Call the field something like "APPF Received Date".

                     

                    On the next line, using the same clumn positions, paint two more fields and treat themn the same way using one of the other required codes.

                     

                    And so on until you have all the codes you require. If you need more than the max number of rows in the footer template sample size we will need to use multiple footers (if you Monarch version has that option) or change over to using appends and traps which will allow them to work - which could prove interesting.

                     

                    Fill as many rows as you need.

                     

                    Monarch will create one of each of the fields in every record but will only fill the field if it 'exists' in that record.

                     

                    You must have unique preceding strings for Monarch to work with, otherwise only the first example will be picked up. So for example where you have REC1 and REC2 (and they always appear in that order) using the preceding string REC would only ever find REC1.

                     

                    This approach is easier to show than to describe in words but if you get one field working it should be easy enough to work out how to do the rest. The sample fotr the template is only important for the definition of the number of lines it contains. The content has no relevance at all in this method.

                     

                    See what that does for you. Any problems just let us know and we will seek a solution for them. Hopefully you won't have hundreds of codes to report ...

                     

                    HTH.

                     

                     

                    Grant

                    • Multiple Models or Separate Sessions for Each Model
                      sxschech _

                      Hi Grant,

                       

                      I have been looking over your response and the report data, still not quite understanding the steps you provided.  However, from looking over the report, it appears that there is always an empty line between the Checklist header and the data as well as an empty line after the end of checklist data.  The exceptions may be that some of the descriptions of the check list wrap creating what almost looks like a blank line and also there are blank lines when a person's record continues onto the next page. As in the example below:

                       

                      [font="courier"]Checklist:  Code        Mandatory       Description              Received                                                                               

                      7TH         Y               Seventh Semester Grades          

                                  CLT2                        College Transcript               

                                  CLT3                        College Transcript               

                                  CLT4                        College Transcript               

                                  CLT5                        College Transcript               

                                  ESSY        Y               Essay/Personal Statement         

                                  FGEN                        First Generation  College        

                                                              St                               

                                  HST1        Y               High School Transcript           

                                  HST2                        High School Transcript           

                                  HST3                        High School Transcript           

                                  HST4                        High School Transcript           

                                  HST5                        High School Transcript           

                                  HSTF                        Final     High     School        

                                                              Transcript                       

                                  REC1        Y               Letter of Recommendation         

                                  REC2                        Letter of Recommendation         

                      XXXXX PPRD Instance                                               PAGE 7

                      ssions Application Report                                          SARADMS

                                                                                                 

                      by Name, Term, Application Number                                                                               

                      Title       Code            Description                                                                               

                      REC3                        Letter of Recommendation         

                                  REC4                        Letter of Recommendation         

                                  REC5                        Letter of Recommendation         

                                  RESU                        Resume                           

                                  TSTS        Y               SAT or ACT Scores (SELF)         

                                  TSTT        Y               SAT or ACT Scores (TAPE)                                                                               

                      /font[/quote]

                      • Multiple Models or Separate Sessions for Each Model
                        Grant Perkins

                        Hi,

                         

                        You can only consider using blank lines if they always exist - so the wrap lines are not available to you (but may present another small problem to be resolved as you work through this) and the blank lines which only appear over a page break are not usable either.

                         

                        Basically what we are trying to do here is establish the largest number of lines that will ALWAYS be available for the template for the section of data the template relates to. This is simply good practice to ensure that the definition of a template does not overlap, in terms of the number of lines it is defined for, the start of the next template of the same type. It may be that this report allows more scope than the minimum number of lines but in general it is still a good idea to keep within the limits.

                         

                        The reason for making the number of lines a template contains (for the specific purpose here) as LARGE as possible is simply that there is a restiction on the number of templates possible within Monarch. Normally this is not a problem but because we are doing something out of the ordinary here and because there may be many codes you need to pick up it is best to try an fit as many lines as possible into each append template.

                         

                        Bear in mind that I am proposing some concepts for you to evaluate and experiment with rather than a definitive solution. This is not an intuitive way of working with Monarch by any means and it may take you some time to feel comfortable with the ideas. In my case it was about 2 years of trial and error before I began to see the possibilities consistently and understood how all the different ideas could come together to provide a consistent solution.

                         

                        If you break it down there are three basic individual concepts in play here.

                         

                        Firstly the overlapping template trap idea that allows data AFTER the detail template to be used as an APPEND rather than a FOOTER.

                         

                        Secondly the Idea of the preceding string to identify the data fields you need to extract whilst leaving other unrequired data untouched.

                         

                        Thirdly the optimisation of the number of rows consistently available to the template so that as many randonmly existing fields as possible can be successfully included in a single template definition in order to keep the number of templates required as small as possible or, if there are a lot of fields to capture, within the maximum number of templates that Monarch allows. (9 append templates in V8 iirc).

                         

                        If there is a specific area or suggestion that does not make sense please let me know and I will try to clarify it by some sort of example.

                         

                        Have fun.

                         

                         

                        Grant